I have one teensy-tiny criticism about Johns sensitivity when someone questioned why Brent did not pursue an advanced degree. The interview was superb and the insight into this extraordinary life was gifted. I thought you were very well spoken Brent. Helping us understand all the ins and outs of this tale throughout the three episodes of this series is Brent Metcalfe, so lets find out more about him, shall we? Thank you as well for your research, especially your work on New Approaches to the Book of Mormon. Well also talk about the recent history of BYUs Maxwell Institute and what he sees in its future and in the future of Mormon apologetics overall. Seventh East Press. Tom, have you considered allowing John to interview you? I will start my question with a short story to add some perspective. ping anser putter 85068 value; italian village commission. Shortly after returning home and leaving the church he was very active in Sunstone and various things of that nature, but has since moved on with his life and seems very happy with a small family of his own running a small restaurant he and his older brother own together. [4] He grew up a member of the LDS Church in a devout family, and served a mission for the LDS Church. Movies. I happen to believe so. Sandra was criticized by some Mormon Stories listeners for not being as critical of Christianity as she was of Mormonism. This is definitely a not-miss interview. It is those moments of intimacy that really help me connect to the humanity of the interviewee. I did enjoy the balance that your podcast once stood for; miss the balance. It is something that has fascinated me, and this Metcalfe interview did not disappoint!!! Reminds me of the Mormon interpretation of Amos 3:7 (Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets). Carl, in parts 3 & 4 of the interview, Ill discuss the BoAbr and some of the challenges that believing scholars face in analyzing its ideational and textual origins. Maxine Hanks was also in my ward. 32 Years Later - Would Mark Hofmann Kill Again? - Wheat & Tares When?? By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Im curious who is singing Lead Kindly Light in this its beautiful. 2023 Cinemaholic Inc. All rights reserved. Coming! Thanks again Brent, no wonder you have had the experience you have shared with your faith about God. The Gift of the Mormon Faith Crisis Podcast. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. He was basically threatening his entire existence. (paraphrased and likely not the actual quote from Murder Among the Mormons, Netflix documentary). If the Prophet cant see Hoffman as a fraud, why should anyone assume their Bishop/Stake president has any more ability in terms of divinely inspired discernment? I suppose the precedent was set by Joseph himself in burning down the Nauvoo Expositor because he didnt like the content, and labelled it anti Mormonit wasnt even, William Law was a believer, who could no longer take Josephs hypocrisy. During my 7779 mission I served in two London areas, living first in Kilburn Park and later in Wimbledon. 497: Brent Metcalfe Part 3 -- After the Hofmann bombings and his - IMDb But such intellectual issues didnt play a role in my failure of faith. And now, as per reports, Brent Metcalfe has been able to construct a healthy and happy life for himself outside of Mormonism, where he can continue to work as an independent scholar and technical editor without any issues or restrictions. Azerbaijan's Jabrayil Hasanov in action against The USA's Brent Metcalf. What do you think about the DCP/Hamblin FARMS implosion? Thats something each person must decide for themselves, but Ive made peace with my own interpretation.. And theres no way that you can change it. What a fascinating glimpse. Copyright 2005 - 2023 | Mormon Stories. He did so to prevent members from apostatizing and becoming fundamentalists. [2][3], At first Metcalfe was placed on 30 days probation by the LDS Security department and ordered to "sever yourself from involvement with people, groups, or publications that teach doctrines, privately or publicly, which are contrary to those of the Prophet." "Murder Among the Mormons" - A Review - UVU REVIEW The Book of Abraham was a problem on my mission too, but we had to just ignore that issue, and wait for an answer. Gary at the time was an up-and-coming star because of his writing skills. He had not let on that the 7th East Press was his brainchild. Some suggest that energy-conservation constraints favored our thoughts sliding along low-resistance neural ruts that include simple feel-good narratives. This unleashed a veritable deluge of Catholic contributions to modern biblical scholarship. Joyce Skabelund October 9, 1938 January 10, 2023 Our mother, grandma, and friend, Joyce Roth Skabelund, 84, departed this life on 10 January 2023. I thought your essay in New Approaches was excellent, and certainly complicates traditional understandings of the Book of Mormon; you obviously dont believe the BoM is historical in any way, but Id also guess you would acknowledge the impressive complexity of it. But thats when he came across books arguing the truthfulness of Mormonism and began questioning the same. The church history claims there was a great uproar about this youth that claimed to have a vision of God. I just looked down at the paper and I felt this wave of total anxiety come over me and then all of a sudden it was like my brain stopped working and it felt like I was looking at a different language. In Part 5, we explore the history surrounding Joseph Smith and the Book of Abraham(one of the primary scriptural texts for the LDS Church). Jn Today the church has suffered too many blows to its claims of certainty to dare to treat its members the way it treated Brent Metcalfe. So sorry for the delay!!!! 515-294-6532. In the highly anticipated follow up to our first interview, Brent Metcalfe continues his story. In 1539 he was elected as an MP for the rst time and was appointed to serve in the King's Privy Chamber. The confessionals in the documentary of Hofmann's associates, such as Shannon Flynn, Brent Metcalf and George Throckmorton are captivating. That makes more sense. In secret, behind closed doors, who were they really betting on? Yes, thats the book, though the volume I perused was the first (1816) edition published in Portsmouth, NH. brent metcalfe excommunicated - madinahmining.com God-belief has also been attributed partly to our brains evolved hyper-tendency to perceiveagency where none exists. Now, in the wake of 200 years of such scholarship, the Bible doesnt hold up much better than the Book of Mormon. So cool that you provided some of the research used by Michael Quinn. In 1994, Professor David Wright of Brandeis University and editor Brent Metcalf were excommunicated for their scripture studies in New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology In 1995, author Janice Allred was excommunicated for her writings about Mother in Heaven. It was so, so interesting. This was an important, affecting interview. And how many. Boy, what a chilling conclusion. Brent did Jerald make an official overture to church leadership regarding Hofmann being a fraud? Not because it marked the end of the University of Iowa's senior's prestigious and highly . Steve Christiansen was my bishop in that centerville ward and I grew up with his children. Contributions. I have never heard of the description that its like talking to someone in the airport on their cell phone, with all the background noise. Thanks, John and Brent! Career Two-time NCAA and Big Ten Champion three-time all-American first wrestler in Big ten history to earn Outstanding Wrestler at the conference meet two straight years (2008, 2009) career winning percentage of .972 (108-3) ranks second all-time at Iowa 2008 Dan Hodge Trophy winner 2008 Jesse Owens Big Ten . Also, make sure your second recording matches the first. For more information, please see our My faith failed me and that led to crisis. It would yield some satisfaction to me, if my misery can be a cause of happiness to others; but when I came to the place of prayer, had kneeled down, and closed my eyes, with my hands uplifted toward the heavens, I saw Jesus Christ at the right hand of God looking down upon me, and God the Father looking upon him. Will there be more? I was there at the very beginning. Nicely done, John. It is better thought of by non-Catholics (generally), but this has not translated into conversions or retention of cradle Catholics. It seems to me that going with what you may think everyone around knows is right (even if it isnt) more easily allows for these kinds of experiences more than realizing there are differences of opinion and thought and then vying for spiritual confirmation. Are you generally satisfied with the way the Mark Hofmann affair has been portrayed in the media and in the various books? Elbert once quipped, The Open Door Club has become the 7th East Press!. what happens if i ignore a ccj; Did you ever suspect there was something not quite right with Mark Hoffman? Did John take the tapes home to show his wife? From your perspective, what are the 3-5 best pieces of evidence for the historicity of the bom? Brent Metcalf, age 31, Kingsport, TN Lived in: Greeneville TN, Elizabethton TN, Louisville TN Relatives: Terri Treadway, Kathy Edens, Douglas Metcalf View full report Brent E Metcalf, age 39, Semmes, AL Lived in: Wilmer AL, Theodore AL Relatives: Beverly Metcalf, Thomas Metcalf, Thomas Metcalf View full report Re: [ZION] LDS Writer Expects to Be Excommunicated Like I said they were casting that net as wide as they could get it. Published by on October 31, 2021. All he had to say publicly if there was really no truth in it, was its simply not true and leave it at that. Long question, sorry ! https://signaturebookslibrary.org/?p=24440. I have been thinking nonstop about that analogy, because it is so illustrative of the disorder. I felt like somehow I was responsible for what had happened. Brent most recently served with the Information Security/Communication Security with the Wyoming Army National Guard as an IT Specialist. They have shown time and time again that that is all that matters to them. I still remember the demo you and your friends gave in the Rec Hall for Mutual. How have things changed over the decades? Again, Im not sure that you would disagree with any of this. Charles, I dont think I threw the baby out with the bathwater since my examination of the Hebrew and Christian scriptures resulted in the same intellectual concerns that I had with LDS scriptural extensions. I may have a chance to look for it next week, but Im not promising anything. Powered by WordPress.com VIP. Three or four episodes were mentioned by John. Brent Metcalf - University of Iowa Athletics Do you attend church anyplace else? Great interview. An anonymous source reported that Roy Doxey, then the director of church correlation, wanted to know about the papers Metcalfe was studying at the Church Historical Library, which were on Elias Smith and others. In it, Metcalfe himself wrote an essay that was the first to advance the Mosiah priority theory, or that Joseph Smith began dictating the Book of Mormon from the Book of Mosiah. You didnt elaborate on that interpretation. She has become the matron saint of Mormon studies (that's a promotion from her previous role as the den mother of Mormon studies). Reply. Is there going to be a part 3? He told the story of writing at least a few letters to Hofmann in prison asking for an interview. Best wishes, Brent! Metcalfe believed that his firing was because of a few people in church leadership who perceived him as a threat, even though he viewed his own work as apologetic and not scholarly. I very much appreciated the beautiful memories and great stories Brent shared about what a remarkable and kind person Steve was. Priestly and monastic vocations have dropped through the floor, sexual abuse has skyrocketed (its not just that it was always happening but was exposed recently, it is pretty clear that sex abuse itself has gone way up post Vatican II), church attendance is way down, retention rates among youth have plummeted- one could go on. After years of palling around with anti-Mormon apostates (e.g. 497: Brent Metcalfe Part 3 -- After the Hofmann bombings and his excommunication (Podcast Episode 2014) on IMDb: Movies, TV, Celebs, and more. Do you still believe in God, and what type of God? My application of Vatican II was specifically intended for the work of Catholic biblical scholars, not Catholicism in toto. !Cmoninstead, they were duped arranged for major amounts of $ to buy the letter up,bury it and then lie. Thank you Brentyou are certainly one of the true Saturdays Warriors Thank you Mormonstories.org I am glad I came across your website! During the first part of his interview, usually John will ask a question about gaining a testimony while in the Mormon church or have spiritual experiences and then pairing those experiences with the Mormon narrative. Unintended consequences here we come! John, please interview Mark Hoffman someday if you can! That was fascinating, thank you. Over the years you just reason, that a faith shouldnt be that complicated. He also discusses the events leading up to, and including, his excommunication. 52K views 2 years ago Iowa's Brent Metcalf took down Ohio State's Lance Palmer in a thrilling title bout at 149 pounds in the 2010 NCAA wrestling championships. You can have a PhD and still not have great knowledge. The 7th East Press was a gem. I sensed a full range of colors in the photo that is this interview. What are your views on how the Book of Mormon was created? She spoke of her life and what has happened in the 30 years since one of Utah's most infamous crimes, Thursday October 8, 2015. For the listeners who are curious, a portion of the book describes a first vision, copied below: https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&output=reader&id=XH0rAAAAYAAJ&pg=GBS.PA54, The Lamb once slain appeared to my understanding, and while viewing him, I felt such love to him as I never felt to anything earthly. What do you attribute this decline to? This was very similar to my experience. Released: Sep 13, 2014 Format: Podcast episode Brent has become one of the foremost scholars in understanding the Book of Abraham. Brent Metcalf Photos and Premium High Res Pictures - Getty Images It would have helped me a lot to know I was not alone. We should also mention that he has since been a key speaker at a conference hosted by Ex-Mormon Foundation and has given several interviews where he has detailed his lifes ups and downs. Daniel Kahneman speaks in terms of efficient Thinking Fast biases that unconsciously deploy the WYSIATI (What-You-See-Is-All-There-Is) heuristic, which has proved itself sufficiently satisficing for selection. Is having spiritual experiences while doing what some may view as critical research on the Book, when you know there may be opposing views to your work, grounds for also having these feelings? brent metcalfe excommunicated by | Jun 23, 2022 | replace flower bed with gravel | pickleball courts on staten island | Jun 23, 2022 | replace flower bed with gravel | pickleball courts on staten island I am very excited to announce that I will soon be interviewing Brent Metcalfe. [4], In 1993 Metcalfe organized a group of scholars to publish a series of essays that sought to apply techniques of higher criticism to the Book of Mormon. I believe Brent said he has the copy in his records.**. Brent H Metcalf, 71 Resides in Salt Lake City, UT Lived In Sandy UT Related To Kyle Metcalf, Molly Metcalf, Kristy Metcalf, Nicole Metcalf Includes Address (3) Phone (4) Email (3) See Results Brent Charles Metcalf, 55 Resides in Lowell, AR Lived In Modesto CA, Oroville CA, Bonney Lake WA Also known as Gary Brent, Metcalf Brent Brent Lee Metcalfe - Wikiwand A question for Brent, What are your thoughts on your research of the book of Abraham? Im glad the church and BYU tried and I dont blame them for making the attempt to shore up the Book of Mormon. Utah LDS Member Excommunicated By Eagle Mountain Stake - Blogger It is important that we be critical thinkers and examine the sources providing information, in the same way we would want to know the credentials of someone dispensing medical advice, car repair advice etc. Unfortunately, much of the middle portion of the interview was lost due to technical issues that were only discovered after we completed the interview. Funny how I was taught at BYU The Glory of God is Intelligence I find comfort in knowing I am not alone. It was so amazing to hear another person explain nearly my identical experience. The Book of Abraham? But this podcast is filled with way more than you will get in the book or documentary. All rights reserved. I felt like somehow I was responsible for what had happened. Why have you distanced yourself from actively publishing and engaging topics on forums as you did in years past? The look of Jesus on me removed the burden of my sins, while he spoke these words, Be faithful until death and this shall be thy place of rest. I never had seen Jesus Christ before, nor heard his voice, nor ever had a sense of his intercession at the right hand of God for me till now (Billy Hibbard, _Memoirs of the Life and Travels of B. Hibbard, Minister of the Gospel_ [New York: J. C. Totten, 1825], 23). What scenario for the books origins have you constructed over your many years of study? I was only 8 when Steve died, so I just remember his smiling face and that everyone, especially my parents, just loved him. brent metcalfe excommunicated - knowthemquicker.com Youve used it well Brent. Roger that. Yeah for Signature Books, Matt Christensen, and the internet!!!!! As coincidence would have it, a few months later I became her home teacher. In Episode 497, Brent Metcalfe shares an interesting fact that when Steve Christensen was called to be a Bishop that he told his Stake President that he would never excommunicate a member of his ward and if that was a problem that he wouldnt accept the calling. If I applied Vatican II to the full breadth of Catholicism, I clearly misspoke (Im not even sure why I would make such a sweeping claim, so I am a tad mystified). You seem to be back on your game of simply inviting your guests to tell their stories. What if we are all chasing literal meanings of words such as translation, ages and names while in effect they are meant to have symbolic meaning and by this to explain esoteric principles to insiders. [9], As it began to be clearer that Hofmann was counterfeiting documents, Christensen and Kathy Sheets were murdered in an separate bombs created by Hofmann, and Hofmann himself was injured when a later bomb he created inadvertently exploded. Review of Books on the Book of Mormon 1989-2011 If youre familiar with image editing, straying from objectivity reminds me of having a color cast in a photo. If you hadnt been excommunicated would you still be a member today? Growing up I only had positive interactions with his beautiful wife and kids. My curiosity was piqued by something Brent briefly alluded to. Brent Lee Metcalfe is an independent researcher and writer of the Latter Day Saint Movement. However, they still mention other things in their presentations (if you can stand to listen to them; I dont particularly like Jake Hiltons rhetoric, but Wayne May is pretty interesting to listen to)that are pretty fascinating and almost convincing. What academic qualifications does Mr. Metcalfe have to authoritatively speak on subjects like the historicity of the Book of Abraham? Interested to hear about your mission, did you serve in Wandsworth at all? None of this means that believing scholars and secular scholars have to treat each other poorly or that we cannot respect (even in the midst of serious disagreement) each others work. As Jeremy Runnells (a la Kirby Ferguson) has said, everythings a remix. Thank you for this interview. And it leaves this distrust in LDS leaders hanging with the viewer. Once the Catholic scholar feels freed from the ostensible constraints of Catholic theology, it is questionable to what degree his scholarship is distinctively Catholic in the first place. brent metcalfe excommunicated. I found this podcast to be very fascinating. I was in a mission conference in Bolivia when Steves younger brother was called out and told of the murder. Also, I appreciate you bringing up ADD. Or even presenting the center view? Yes, because remember that the paradigm speaking through Mikes words is not just representative of him. Where is Brent Metcalfe Now? - The Cinemaholic When Brent Metcalfe compiled a book of essays last year suggesting that Mormonism's founding scripture wasn't the ancient history it purports to be, he expected some criticism. Hofmann really believed he could pull it all off, and maybe it wasnt just the police who thwarted his scheme? The LDS Church fired Brigham Young University professor David Wright for his contribution to the volume, and excommunicated both Wright and Metcalfe shortly thereafter. Copyright 2005 - 2023 | Mormon Stories. I happened to not do soat least, not yet. Im pretty sure I was standing next to Maxine. "Everybody that ever dealt with Mark Hofmann was a victim of his, and of his deception, and I think it's just kind of a . And you are an example. He also talks about his early forays into Mormon studies. Please, God, let this podcast inspire someone to produce a talk show called, Hot-tubbing with Mark Hoffman! John Are you done interviewing faithful members or promoting faithful stories? had the same reaction to the Sandra Tanners interview. Menu. According to Metcalfe, he was questioned by LDS Church authorities about his writing for the 7EP and Sunstone was "forced to resign" from his job in April 1983. Did any of these projects or research ever prove anything? brent metcalfe excommunicated - dialectic.solutions [9] Metcalfe and the police were afraid Metcalfe might be a future target he went into hiding. Brent is a fascinating interview for Mormon Stories for many reasons, including: He knew forger and bomber Mark Hofmann personally. And if Christianity/Mormonism is *false*, then were being done a tremendous service in this falsification. Metcalf served as the National Freestyle Developmental Coach prior to . What would you say are the most significant developments in the critiques of the church in the past 20 years that didnt exist beforehand? What historical issues does he think are most worthy of exploration, and how would he suggest young aspiring researchers go about gathering and parsing primary and secondary sources? 493-494; 497-499b: Brent Metcalfe - Mormon Stories In Part 2, Brent describes working for and with Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, the Salamander Letter episode, and the bombings that took the lives of Steve and Kathy Sheets. Ive always wondered if my church record was blighted in some way. Im was left kind of hot but dry after hoping to hear about his drama with the church and its leaders.any chance of allowing closure for me here? There are so many parallels between the happenings in my LDS life and Brents, (although nothing to such depth and notoriety) I was drawn to find more information about his life, while he was in the church and out. how to delete casting call club account - Rodel.xyz [9] When it became rumored that Metcalfe had lost his belief in the historical claims of the LDS Church, Christensen terminated the project and fired Metcalfe. Thank you Brandt for sharing your experiences. Mark Metcalfe - Project Manager - Heavy Lift Division - LinkedIn That said, I have to wonder what planet hes living on when he says that Catholicism has been reinvigorated in the post Vatican II era. 10 of Brent Metcalfe Podcasts Interviews | Updated Daily - OwlTail Thank you both in advance. fireside chat september 3, 1939 summary . Many of the writers did become illustrious personalities, exactly as you point out. As someone told him, You didnt have a crisis of faith but a Failure of Faith. ), Visitation of Hertfordshire 1572 & 1634 (London, 1886), 116. Brent, thanks so much for sharing your tender moments as well. Thanks for the clarification. Brent was ultimately excommunicated for editing/authoring this book. dave davies wife. brent metcalfe excommunicatedperpetual futures binance. "The Mormon murders: A true story of greed, forgery, deceit, and death." Historian Brent Metcalfe says he was fired by the church out of fear he'd publish something they didn't like. I think that it speaks volumes about their powers of discernment and what they truly think about Joseph Smith. BOOK OF MORMON SCHOLARS UNLEASH SALVO OF BARBS - Deseret News Every metric you can imagine points to the same conclusion: from Paul VI forward, Catholicism has gone into deep crisis. JDK-8141210 : Very slow loading of JavaScript file with recent JDK I can hardly wait for the rest! We may be on our own and need to create our own justice and future, but its possible that Providence does in fact sometimes intervene. I hope you consider doing this. Were they watching us? Brents words deepened my own thoughts on God, spiritually and humanity. Dissident LDS intellectuals say excommunications will continue Be the first to contribute! So, considering all that they had been through, when Mark was named a suspect, Brent didnt even think twice before defending his friend on television. Im not excited anymore. St. Martins Press. Since unit growth of the church is now in decline and growing slower than U.S. and world population growth, how do you see the future of the church and its doctrines? [3] Current historians tend to agree that Scotford and Soper joined forces to sell the fake relics for personal profit. Theres the answer.