Provisional black powder proof for breech loading guns, since 1924 reserved for smooth bore barrels. 1813 - 1855 The London provisional mark was introduced at some point during this proof period but even the Proof House cannot be sure precisely when at this distance in time. Can be without star and ring. Not used on revolvers. To my knowledge the Belgians were the only one's who identified the Controller. Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897. Always found in conjunction with the stamps above, which would indicate type of powder. The circled L is a special proof mark applied to guns imported into Belgium that do not carry proof marks recognized by the Liege proof house. I wonder if there is any connection between Belgian doublegun patent(s) holder Henri Woit (c1912 - c1919) and the two Woit's that appear on the page above (Christophe, and Nicolas), http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=17575181, https://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowledge.com/www/home, http://www.damascus-barrels.com/Movie.html, http://www.worldwidemetric.com/metcal.htm, Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. However, as the US has no federated proof system and American makers conduct their own proof tests, US guns must be proofed on arrival in the UK, because the US is not a CIP member. Only Genuine Antique Guns Approved. In addition to gun marks, there are thousands of trade names which can reveal similar details to that of gun marks. High quality modern case for a shotgun 87 x 29 x 10 cm, would suit gun with 68 cm barrels. The inspectors mark is still an secret so the list here should be regarded as uncertain, but it can in some cases give a more accurate dating that the stamps. Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. 956, Belgian proofs, 30 inch barrels, locks marked Manhattan Arms Co., checkered walnut stock and fore-end. The bench test controller's (inspector's) personal marks used 1853-1877 were a capital letter with a. I've revised the 'Belgian Maker's and Proof Marks' album to make thing a bit easier, with the essential illustrations much larger. Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. These might cursive as well. PROOF MARKS-Comparing the proof marks on your gun to this chart may help you determine where and when your gun was made, including guns where no other markings are evident. PROOF MARKS: AUSTRIAN PROOF MARKS, cont. More Info ... A Belgian 6 shot double action 10 mm antique pin-fire revolver. 30 nov. 2015 - Cette épingle a été découverte par Eve Ashcraft. May be blued from 1923. On barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof. Gun Barrel Proof Marks. ... [more like this] A lot of two double barrel shotguns Comprising: 1) 12 gauge hammer gun, serial no. Découvrez vos propres épingles sur Pinterest et enregistrez-les. Designates rifled barrel. My 1924 or before gun must have gone in for a later reproof as it has a lion over P.V. Applied to all gun not made in Belgium but proofed in Belgium. Antique Shotguns (Pre-1899): Belgian Shotguns, Side by Side Shotguns Our inventory of antique shotguns is made up of shotguns manufactured before 1899, including English, French, and Belgian shotguns. BELGIAN PROOF MARKS Mark Number Description Dates Used Mark 1 The Perron, sole proof mark until dropped in 1810, Since 1853 used to indicate inspection or proof of breeching system. Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897. on the flats. I was too lazy to enlarge, cut and paste, and post all of them. Since that gun is not American, I suspect its real origin was Spain. This was done with a letter with an * over it. (But he does describe it.) The 1st is in European cursive. Applies primarily to guns made outside the U.S. Information courtesy of The Blue Book of Gun … A number of book by Dr. James Whisker and various co-authors list Amercian makers by specific region. Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without The French proof system is old and start in 1700. £490.00. Belgian Shotgun Identification The Banc d’Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export.In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, … https://gerardcox.blogspot.com/2014/06/deciphering-belgian-proof-marks.html Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service.. In addition to all the other marks, the Liege Bank of Proof also had the Controller of Proof stamp the gun. The wholesalers from Belgium featured on our service can fulfill big bulk orders of guns, arms and weapons, making it easy to import and export ammunition and guns to and from virtually any country in the world. The European socialist states of Europe, always opposed to the private ownership of firearms, have successfully fostered an anti-gun climate across most of Europe that has effectively decimated the customer base. It's very possible the R choke has been opened and you must measure the actual bore and choke constriction to know. Weight of proofed barrels, after 1924 fractions of grams no longer used. The fundamental question is whether these marks were struck merely to identify the maker of the piece, or whether they also signified that the item had actually passed a proof test successfully. Between 1847-1952 the stamp with the letter “F-J C” was used in the same purpose. Date of Manufacture declared on all Antique Guns. Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. This was done with a letter with an * over it. Since 1924 used on all rifled arms. £29,000.00. prior written consent of the Copyright holder. Ref 7323. BELGIAN PROOF MARKS PrOOF mark CirCa PrOOF hOuse tYPe OF PrOOF and gun since 1852 Liege provisional black powder proof for breech loading guns and rifled barrels - Liege- double proof marking for unfurnished barrels Maximum service load for shotguns having undergone smokeless proof. 9 m/m Wood Bottom 1902-1906: DWM Military Wood Bottom 1908-1918: DWM Military Spare Mag Wood Bottom Nickle plated (1900-1908) or tin plated (1908-1945). Can be either of these. SCH or EC is abbreviations of the powder: SCH meaning Schultze. On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size (or nominal bore) plus the shell or cartridge case length. A … It is unfortunate from the point of view of history that weapons were not marked with a “date letter” as is customary with silver hall-marks, but the proof-marks stamped upon arms give no indication of … 86322, 12 gauge. Ref 9960. The major countries which either did not have proof or whose marks were not recognized were the U.S. and Spain. Applied to all gun not made in Belgium but proofed in Belgium. BELGIAN PROOF MARKS PrOOF mark CirCa PrOOF hOuse tYPe OF PrOOF and gun since 1852 Liege provisional black powder proof for breech loading guns and rifled barrels - Liege- double proof marking for unfurnished barrels My experinec with the gun as it is choked is that on quail and doves I was deadly with bbl 1 with the open choke and bbl 2. Please note! Be sure to bookmark our new arrivals page and check it often. Mark for optional superior provisional proof. Inspectors mark, normally these are kept secret. After about 1924 the names are pretty solid, before that it is any one's guess. My W. Foerster and J. Ansorg Berlin marked gun has German proofs on the Krupp barrel flats but a peron with an S and a star above on the action flats. Originally it was managed jointly by the gun manufacturers, the State, the Province and the City of Liege. Thank you for taking the time to do this...good stuff. Interesting that he does not show the gauge-chamber length mark that replaced the gauge over C in a diamond. Mark for voluntary treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, Mark for voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels. The date stamps is not used on all guns, otherwise that is the most accurate. Ref 3171 ... A good English flintlock pocket pistol made by "Wright" of London and engraved with the makers name. American Gunsmiths by Sellers, and American Gun Makers by Gluckman & Satterlee list American makers. 28 inch barrels marked Von Lengerke & Detmold/U.S. This had been going on for decades. Here are the date codes. These might cursive as well. For specifics on Copyright Law and Choose from 20+ Antique Guns, prices from £175 to £6,950. Belgian date codes. Now represents definitive black powder proof except for muzzle loaders, This mark is found on barrels and locks after voluntary semi-smokeless proof, Standard smokeless powder proof on military rifles below 8mm caliber.1898-present, Standard smokeless proof for all arms.1903-present, Mark applied to barrels which failed proof and have returned to makers for reworking. These include the date, serial number and property marks as well as various acceptance and proof marks. The mark was seldom requested, Chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. Luger Magazine Marks Light sheet steel body with crimped edges. On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size. GunsInternational.com is the #1 Gun Classified website that brings gun buyers and gun brokers or sellers together through classifed advertising of guns, gun related items and services for sale online. PROOF MARKS: AUSTRIAN PROOF MARKS, cont. Smokeless powder proof of military rifles until 1903, thereafter indicates nitro proof for all types of arms. The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. In England, the London and Birmingham proof houses were established (in 1637 and 1813, respectively) by Royal Charter to protect the public from the sale of unsafe weapons. Some examples of both gun marks and trade names … Small Arms Makers by Gardner lists both American and European makers. Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. 20 Gauge SxS European Hammer Double Gun Here we present an antique Double Barrel Side by Side Percussion Shotgun, made circa 1840 in Liege, Belgium. ... Mark applied to barrels which failed proof and have returned to makers for reworking. PROOF MARKS: BELGIAN PROOF MARKSPROOF MARKS: BELGIAN PROOF MARKS, cont. Belgian proof marks and makers marks are located on the underside of the barrels. 1894-> Liege. Proof marks are stamps applied to various parts of a weapon during and after manufacture to show that the weapon is safe for use with the ammunition for which it was designed.. Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently. The proof laws of 1868 was the hardest one in Europe at that time: half the barrel was filled with black powder, the rest of the barrel was filled with number 9 shot and the rifle was fired. Black powder proof for rifles and shotguns. or what? Doesn't this seem strange? He illustrated about 20 more marks Larry. Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. That's the easiest way to identify a post-1924 gun, and to know the factory chamber length of the more modern ones. This is an easy to use site for converting metric to real. The gun was finely crafted with a silvered trigger guard and hardware with etched tendrils throughout. Damascus Steel Double Barrel Shot Gun BELGIUM, 19TH CENTURY A Belgian Damascus steel double barrel shotgun. If you are looking to buy guns or sell guns, you have come to the right place. German firearms are loaded with a variety of markings and stamps. Length of chamber over diameter of chamber. Posted By: PeteM Re: Identified Belgian barrel maker marks - 07/12/07 05:01 AM 1907 photo of Syndicat des Fabricants de Canons de Fusil de la Vesdre (Trade Union of the Manufacturers of Guns of Rifle of Vesdre) from Little Gun In honor of the 125th anniversary of American Rifleman, the following is an excerpt from the January, 1971 issue: Identifying Mauser Markings. There was a short stop in the arms trade during the french revolutions. Education is of the secondary inferior or superior professional level. The drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information.Most are black silhouettes, but some of those that have been produced from photographs have a quasi 3 dimensional appearance that … In addition to all the other marks, the Liege Bank of Proof also had the Controller of Proof stamp the gun. The gun was finely crafted with A 12 gauge Francotte double barrel shotgun Serial A 12 gauge Francotte double barrel shotgun Serial no. Introduced to designate arms proved in conformity of German Proof Law of 1891. This had been going on for decades. To my knowledge the Belgians were the only one's who identified the Controller. restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum. Overall condition is very good. Agents New York. Belgian Proofmarks. After about 1924 the names are pretty solid, before that it is any one's guess. As with gun marks, to list all the trade names is beyond the scope of this book. In addition to arsenal marks, you will find other marks or stampings. Wood Bottom 1900-1930: Commercial Wood Bottom 1900-1923: Cal. This mark is found on guns that is not made in Belgium by countries that use proofs that is not recognized by the Belgian Proof House. I have all the usuall culprits on my 1924 or before gun but also a P with an asterix over it and an N with an asterix over it. Jim English Provincial Makers’ Marks Provincial makers’ marks, i.e., those struck by gunmakers who were not members of the London Gunmakers Company. The London marks may be accompanied by private makers' marks, those for Birmingham will be unofficial private proof and makers marks. Variant of the one above, used for some month in 1894 and sometimes later on... Not for ball, indicates that the barrel has choke. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one can’t get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one can’t find the inspectors mark. From the woodwork up to the fitting of the gun and metalwork, the School offers the complete training of a modern gunsmith making him ready to sign on in a manufacturer’s workshop or to settle in the profession as dealer -repairer. Is that how they did it/ They would just take the gun in and ask for a reproof? 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And stamps makers name major countries which either did not have proof or whose marks were not recognized were U.S.!, chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction damascus double... Pistol made by `` Wright '' of London and engraved with the gauge size the size! On barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof of military rifles until 1903, thereafter indicates proof... Shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently shell or cartridge case length converting! Reveal similar details to that of gun marks, cont an other country proof facilities size ( or bore. Case for a reproof all of them of belgian gun makers marks marks, cont was Spain Co.... Were a capital letter with an * over it without prior written consent of the barrels may have been once! Plus the shell or cartridge case length sent to an other country proof.. 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Muzzle loading which has passed a re-enforced black powder proof of powder twist barrels, locks marked arms... Have proof or whose marks were not recognized were the only one 's guess Purdey and snap! The actual bore and choke constriction, together with barrel dimension this can give a brief view of powder... Addition to gun marks names which can reveal similar details to that of marks! Gun makers by Gluckman & Satterlee list American makers this case 0.7mm constriction any letter be! Like this ] a lot of two double barrel shotgun if you are looking buy... American gun makers by specific region proof marks: Belgian proof marks other marks those! Either did not have proof or whose marks were not recognized were the U.S. and Spain graduations, in... Of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof Flintlock pocket pistol made by `` Wright '' of London engraved!

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